Second Life Mesh Avatar Bosom Comparison

Your avatar’s bosom is a very personal thing. Somewhere that gets a lot of attention and has a lot of self-identity wrapped around feeling naturally you. Only makes sense that getting a mesh body that looks “right” here can be very important.

This is also the area where the different mesh bodies seem to have the greatest amount of variation between brands. I have discarded more choices over how they conveyed this part of the anatomy than any other area. If it doesn’t look ‘right’, if it doesn’t move ‘right’ with avatar physics, it just isn’t me.

I’ve taken comparison screenshots of the bosoms of the Second Life fit-mesh avatars I own from the front and side, at the sizes of 30, 50, 75, and 100 in both ‘breast size’ and ‘buoyancy’.

I think it helps illustrate how different bodies perform.

This may help some in making choices between different mesh bodies.

Here you can see which of them ‘break’ at the larger extreme, as well as just how large each can get. I find that all but Belleza and The Mesh Project (TMP) break in the side view at much of these size ranges. And only those two brands plus Banned can handle size 30. While only those first two brands plus SalinA can handle size 100 (though SalinA at size 100 is comic-bookish, it still holds together the shape of its proper ‘design theory’).

All but the TMP one use an old freebie texture I used to give out, that is, well, too low quality to even be a freebie in today’s SL. TMP doesn’t allow people to make appliers for it unless they get on a very select approved list – no Omega system… so I had to use one of their appliers. It may look better, but that should be a massive red flag as it means you cannot use most skins you might want to use.

I’ve done the cheap texture for three reasons:

  • First in that I fully own it so I could hand it out to all my alts and anyone else who wants it for testing – letting me get a uniform look across all but TMP.
  • Second this texture doesn’t have anything in it to enhance the look of the bosom, so you can compare the the shape of the mesh itself, and not the tricks we all use to make it look better.
  • Third because it is not as ‘nice looking’ I’m hoping to avoid some of the common issues with SL Men who… have a very notable inability to control their own behavior upon seeing visuals of women… (as I noted recently in a post on my flickr, since rejoining SL Nudism, my mute list has been steadily gaining more and more male entries). Comments to this article from people who lack self-control will be moderated.

I’m putting this below a ‘fold’ so that people need to click in as the content is even more ‘in your face’ that the visuals in many of my other posts.

See below for some thumbnails, click them for the full sized images on flickr (because my blog’s stylesheet forces all images to no wider than 650 pixels).
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coldLogic / Neva finally added Belleza Freya support…

Looks like I might be able to wear clothes again in Second Life, and not always be a nudist:

https://coldlogic.wordpress.com/2016/01/20/work-or-play/

Neve is very happy to announce newly added body support for Belleza Freya

Although it looks like a lot of the items are using the ‘perky’ boob setting even for things that are NOT pushups, like a nightgown…
ColdLogicFreya_PushupBraNighty.png

That said it looks like the fit still needs a little work:

ColdLogicFreya_FitNeedsWork.png

They’re almost a year behind Blueberry now. The once top clothing brand in SL lost a lot of ground by being slow to come in to mesh bodies (even with Maitreya they were months behind the curve). With Freya now as of the end of January, if they can fix this fitting issue we might have choices again.

The newest item is better but still has underboob issues:
ColdLogicFreya_UnderBoobPopThrough.png

My criticisms aside here, I really want this brand to get with it and do Freya right – and hopefully also WITHOUT using the perky boob shape…

coldLogic has long been a rarity in Second Life for doing mostly normal clothing that could wear on a real life street, as opposed to many other brands that are mostly kink and beach wear, and you have to struggle to find something normal, office, or even casual.

So if coldLogic can get Freya right… we can wear clothes again without having to look like we’re headed to the pole at a strip club… O.o

 

They will also need to start providing clothing that does NOT use auto-hide:

ColdLogicFreya_AutoHide.png
Whichever item I put on last, un-hides all my alphas not related to it. So here I put on the top and it unhid my legs, so then I put on the pants, and my top unhid causing part of my bosom to pop through…

Blueberry had this problem for a while, and I guess it took enough customer complaints before they started offering items without the auto-hide scripts…

 

 

Mesh clothes don’t care if you’re tall or short, thick or thin. They care about stretch of bust-waist-hips

Sept 18, 2015 Edit: Obviously fitmesh bodies are the clothing made for them are an exception to this. As to regular fitmesh on the default avatar – for some reason I have as yet been unable to find any that actually fits…


I keep seeing this over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again… πŸ™‚

Something like this:

The […] standard sizes are ridiculous. Oddly, they seem to have decided that [large are fat][small are skinny][etc]. I wonder if those who created the β€œstandards” ever [assorted complaints]

This is because the person concerned is reading a word the way say, men use it when they shop in the real world.

Mesh clothing works a little more like a lot of T-Shirts do, and a lot of women’s cloths. Where a size small means you’re skinny, and a size large means you really don’t need to stop at Burger King on the way home tonight.

Think of it like this, using the standard sizes:

XXS: Michael Jackson would have done a concert to feed you.
XS: You look thin
S: You’re fit.
M: You shop in the plus size section.
L: You have reserved seating at the local Fried Chicken joint.

And just bump those one position for men, since male STandard sizes go from XS to XL. Male XL is basically female L.

You could still be taller than Abe Lincoln, or Shorter than Mini-Me. It just don’t matter.

Look at the standard sizes program, notice how it only seems to care about a few certain dails:

Women:
Body Fat
Torso Muscle
Breast Size
Love Handles
Belly Size
Leg Muscle
Butt Size
Saddle Bags

Men:
Body Fat
Belly Size
Torso Muscle
Love Handles
Leg Muscle
Butt Size
Saddle Bags
Package
Pectorals

Notice what’s not in there?

Height. Having T-Rex arms or legs. Your neck. Your head. Your ‘thickness’ dial.

Why? Cause mesh doesn’t care. These are scale dials, or for the head – would not be important unless you wanted to buy a mesh ski-mask to go rob the local stop-n-rob in Bay City (hey I own that shop…)

There are only two dials that matter for mesh that are -NOT- in the lists above; Breast Buoyancy and Cleavage. If you don’t know why – you’ve never touched real boobies… πŸ™‚

So if you’re tall and thin, and you looked at Standard Sizes and thought “this is broken”… go try the XXS or XS size. That’s probably you.

Mesh fits a -LOT- more people than some think. Many who feel it doesn’t fit them are in fact within the zone of commonly used settings.

The deformer won’t help these folks. If they grab a ‘large’ mesh and deform it to their tall but thin avatar – it will be a mess of nasty triangles poking out. They need a small mesh, because they’re thin.

Some folks waiting for the deformer, will be in an EVEN WORSE MESS once it gets here, because they “never read the manual.” These folks just need to learn what mesh does effect, and then they can find existing items that are close. And the deformer will just take that close and get closer. It won’t turn a circle into a square folks – it will take a square and bevel it.

Standard Sizing Package For mesh Clothing Design; Good or Bad Idea, or a Bit of Both?

Still need to do some edits to this… There’s a lot of argument (hardly debate, more rantish most of the time) against the ideas of standard scales and proportions for avatars. Folks often pick a horridly distorted shape, or make one for sale; and then become attached to defending that choice when made aware of its problems. Others choose a ‘fun-house mirror look’ on purpose, for effect – but these folks tend to actually know what they’re looking at, and have purposeful distortions designed for a specific intent.

Various arguments have formed over what can be done, or even if anything should be done, to address this.

Mesh now complicates the whole feud – due to the lack of its ability to ‘auto fit’ some shape dials, while perfectly matching others… Or in short; mesh will auto size itself to any height, limb length, or body width. But if your ‘bust-waist-hips’ fail to match the model used to make the mesh clothing, you’re out of luck.

Go shopping for mesh clothes and you’ll discover that this is rapidly dissolving into exactly the chaos people predicted when they warned of the problems of Linden Lab not including a deformer… There’s a motley variety of dimensions to clothes on the market, and the labels are near meaningless. Small from brand A is ‘the fat lady sings’ in the eyes of brand B… And even if two brands match for waist and hips, they might have very different ideas of bust…

I’ve read a little bit on the idea of starting a standard, and have been somewhat critical of it in past topics. Still not convinced, for some reasons noted below. But it also may be the only real solution we have unless and until Linden Lab decides to grace us with the “gift” of including the code community members had to fund a third party contractor former Lab employee to make without any guarantees it would even be adopted… That deformer… the sort of thing that really should have been a ‘cannot ship mesh without’ line in the sand element. This is the kind of lack of core feature that in most development communities, management should have laid down the law and put people’s jobs on the line to get in there before Mesh was released.

I’m ranting…

Ok, so, the above in mind, I stumbled across something interesting last night while looking for a completely different thing on Marketplace (I was looking for an SL version of a Bobo Shanti turban hat for a female Rastafarian – which is NOT those touristy hippie tam things – and that somehow landed me here after giving up on search and just hitting a few random browse buttons.)

Someone on marketplace is attempting to develop a standard sizes fashion system. 5 sizes based on these dimensions:

Medium:
Body Fat: 11
Torso Muscle: 38
Breast Size: 58
Love Handles: 31
Belly Size: 6
Leg Muscle: 56
Butt Size: 44
Saddle Bags: 36

Small:
Body Fat: 7
Torso Muscle: 35
Breast Size: 52
Love Handles: 28
Belly Size: 3
Leg Muscle: 50
Butt Size: 38
Saddle Bags: 33

The ‘package’ is a freebie with 5 shapes, that I assume have those numbers alongside the other values – the notion being that you just need to stay close to the dimensions here and any mesh clothes made for it will fit you.

It also comes with a long notecard explaining the objectives of the project, which seems a very noble goal. Some anticipated concerns are answered, such as ‘what if my shape doesn’t match these numbers’.

Finally, it has a download link to a zip file of some mesh objects – bodies to load into a 3D application to use for building clothes to match.
– I need to learn how one takes the SL avatar mesh out of SL and into a 3D app, to see how this part was done.

– The problem is they have 3 sizes under M, and only 1 above it; which is way above it. Some of the reviews on Marketplace have slammed the project for this. I would say it needs at least 1 more size in between M and L.

Note how the dimensions are basically bust-waist-hips related. Not height. Also not ‘Thickness’. That’s because mesh doesn’t care about height or limb length or avatar thickness; it rescales to those automatically, but not to these other things.

But it is missing cleavage which is extremely important. That said, its something that in RL adjusts depending on what you wear anyway, so no one has any business complaining a clothing item fails to match their cleavage setting, unless they’ve never seen a real woman’s body. πŸ˜‰
– Honestly no ‘breast’ setting should seen as something to get attached to. Its the nature of wearing or not wearing clothes that it ‘mashes up’ the soft tissue there. Folks just need to get used to changing the dials for that part of the body to fit their outfit, because anytime you put something on in RL, that’s exactly what happens to you.

The standard sizes ‘team’ claims to have surveyed 500 female avatars, but I see no link to a blog or to the survey for it to be checked for accuracy. While 500 is a valid sample size (anyone who has actually studied polling at a university level knows this) – the question that is more important is how were they selected… Again, never saw any forum post or group notice or blogs announcing it. But maybe I just missed them. So the product should link to them.

Curiously M and S are very similar to my own dimensions for those parts.

Me:

Body Fat: 3
Torso Muscle: 37
Breast SIze: 50
Love Handles: 29
Belly Size: 0
Leg Muscles: 50
Butt Size: 45
Saddle Bags: 30
– So I’m going to test some items made with this system and see how well it works for me.

I’m also wondering now if my avatar has a bit of a ‘bubble butt’ on other people’s screens… πŸ™‚

Almost every shape setting not listed above (again except for cleavage) DOES NOT MATTER for mesh. This means two people can be the same “size” on this system but actually have completely different ‘shapes’.

I’m also of the opinion that for standard sizes they should have used dimensions from the real life fashion industry for some top brands, and not SL. Second Life avatars are notorious for being deformed monstrosities… πŸ™‚ Something to help people look better would be good.

Something like perhaps, a Proportion guide, if not fashions with sizes based on the variety real life fashion designers contend with.

Addendum from a comment I left on the nwn blog:
SL of a year from now will likely be something very alien to the SL of today. Mesh frees up a lot of past limits.

Right now folks are paying most of their attention to clothes and avatars, because that’s “sexy”.

Things like tears, ‘male bits’, hair, feet, tails, ears, and so on will bring dramatic changes even for ‘non-furries’.

But the big shock is going to come when things that you rez on the land get a serious looking at – since those need to consider prim cost, and the prim cost of a mesh is set by its -SIZE- when rezzed.

The smaller you make it, the less prims it uses.

And that will cycle us right back into discussions about things for avatars: since mesh items worn on avatars -AUTO- scale up or down regardless of avatar scale – the need to be the size the item was made for now no longer exists (you just need to have the bust-waist-hips it was made for).

– And that too will go away if we either adopt some standards like this project, or Qarl’s code makes it in. Hopefully Qarl’s code will make it in.

But do get ready to make your avatar smaller… because pretty soon that’s going to be coming up as a hot topic again when this discovery of how size affects prim cost becomes more widespread. I predict lots of flame wars, a few accusations of ‘techno-communist-child-avatar-agendas’ and other irrational insanity… but once people realize they can wear all their mesh clothes on any size, many will likely just go with the size that lets them have the most prims on their land – not for the reasons of scale so often advocated in past, but simply so they can more fully fill up things like the space of a linden home.

Low Prim Mesh Furniture is here

3 prim mesh couch
See this couch. Its 3 prims. The tables behind it and in front of the camera are 1 prim each. The lamp there is sculpty, and 2 prims. The set comes with a chair also, for another 3 prims. All copy and modify.
Low prim mesh living room.

This is the kind of prim count we’re used to from sculpty furniture. But on the level of detail we’re used to from prim furniture.

But it gets better. This bench is 3 prim:
Low prim mesh bench
– Its just amazing to look at. Something like this on prims would be pretty costly. Vaguely possible on sculpty, but in mesh its just a clean package.

And take a look at this 3 prim shelf:
3 prim mesh shelf.
Which since it is modify, I think I’ll need to scale down.

These items are from Organica, and there’s a lot more where they came from. The shop is mostly known for its plants and floating sculpty sky islands. But it looks like they’ve been busy branching out into a few more areas.

This is mesh done right – efficient modeling which results in very low prim costs once brought into Second Life, but with a very appealing look. The items are also well scripted with some engaging sit animations.

Check it out, and if you make furniture, get up to speed; because this stuff is coming. πŸ™‚

Oh and my avatar up there, she’s wearing this:

SFW Mesh skirt and blouse.
dDx Jocasta hair.
Slightly modified the hair to cover human ears so it would work with a neko.
Neko parts are taken from the Dark Spot Designs Ocelot and the [AX] Neko Cat.
Bought new eyes for the first time since 2009 – By Snow Hybrid Eyes in violet.

Shop at Irie Vibes

Quicky cause its late for me, bed time. πŸ™‚

Just set up a shop at Irie Vibes, the popular Reggae club:
Zion Kitty @ Irie Vibes
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Irie%20Vibes/144/179/29
Noted it on my SL FEED as well.

Looks like I didn’t get the best screenshot there. I’ll have to make a better one and edit this. πŸ™‚

This is the first time I’ve done rental spots in SL, since coming to SL originally in 2006. Always owned land, never used malls, not even club malls, before now. But it seemed like a good idea for exposure.

They used to have signs at Irie Vibes talking about Reggae and Rastafarians – but no more. I’m going to have to make some and put them up in my shop here and on my own land… πŸ™‚

Updating my info for my shop in Bay City – Morton, one piece at a time

Outside my Shop in Bay City Morton
Piece by piece, I’ve put my shop together in Bay City – Morton.
http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Bay%20City%20-%20Morton/28/113/25

Left my Zindra location a while ago. Bought the lot in Bay City even earlier, back in July or so. But failed to actually build the shop for it until early November… Yeah, I left a lot nearly empty for -that- long… well, not empty, but full of ‘Under Construction signs and boxes I’d rezzed for textures.

I had this idea of a broken down part of the hood for a shop, with ruins and junk outside, and products mixed around. But in the end I simplified down to a run down gas station, added some graffiti, and put a second ghetto building off to the side. Things which normally seem blighted, can have a certain appeal in the right context.

The gas station holds my builder products; sculpty maps, scripts, height meter, and some basic skins, alongside premade skyboxes. The ghetto-themed storefront building holds my Rastafarian art and fashion line. Some political art is on display on a wall outside, and some information boards along a wall between the two buildings.

Outside my Shop in Bay City Morton

TOnight I finally updated all the entries on Marketplace to point to the new shop, along with assorted Picks. I still need to do that horridly grueling task of putting new landmarks into every product… Something for tomorrow I guess… πŸ™‚

PS: Yes, the lot I had in Isabel, next to the infoHub, did sell. The new owner is still using my logo in About Land and the description / name still has my entry… πŸ™‚
Now I’m trying to clear out of half my lot in Honawan – my deep water boat rezzing land, I had a second parcel there for prims, on the hill, but ended up filling it with decorative stuff… Looked it over and realized my boat lot was big enough for my prim needs, so it’s time to lose the other spot:

Lot I need to sell in Honawan

I just can’t figure out what to sell it for… Only half want to get rid of it…

Note my neighbor next door selling their land, in 2 split 512s… The same neighbor owns the building in the background and the bus stop on the linden land across the road, I think. Or used to.

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